Following Tuesday's shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, which left at least 19 students and two teachers dead, Public Radio Tulsa's Chris Polansky spoke with Tulsa-area parents on Wednesday about their reactions to the news and how they're discussing — or not discussing — the attack with their own children.
The American Academy of Pediatrics offers this guide on how to discuss events like Tuesday's shooting with children.
Interviews edited for length and clarity.
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MISTI STEPHENS, 36, health care operations director, Broken Arrow.
Two children, 6 and 4, attend Undercroft Montessori School in Tulsa.
"I think I got the same push alert that a lot of people did. And this, I don't know, sounds bad, but I guess is normal — I had that moment, because I was in the middle of a work call and I saw it on my iPhone, and my immediate response was, 'Oh, don't have capacity for that right now. Need to set that aside briefly and finish what I'm doing before I acknowledge that I even saw it.' So I finished, but even in that moment, I still thought, like, I can't actually deal with this until my kids go to bed, and then I can actually start to process this. I don't want them to see me an entire mess. So it was [Tuesday] evening after they went to bed before I really let myself kind of take it all in. Since then, it's been intermittent tears.
"I had a moment yesterday — Rowen [6-year-old] is sick with COVID, and so he missed his kindergarten graduation yesterday. And so we watched kindergarten graduation on the laptop. And as I was crying tears over Rowen missing graduation because of this endless pandemic, I got angry at myself for feeling sad for my kid who's alive and safe in my house, and reminded myself how grateful we should be. It took me a few hours to realize that it's okay to be sad for him, too, for missing out on something that's meaningful to him, while also grieving these babies who were just not much older than he is. It's been 24 hours of grief for both of those things, and doing my best to let myself experience that without thrusting it on my kids, because that's not fair to them.
"We've gone with the abstinence method so far. We don't generally have news or TV on. My husband and I get our news from Twitter and push alerts from the AP, so we haven't been watching the news. We did, this morning — I asked Rowen, I said, 'What kind of drills do you guys have at school?' And he said 'Fire drills where we go outside and tornado drills where we go in the safe room.' 'Do you have any other drills where you go in the safe room?' And he said, 'No, what other drills would there be?' My husband and I kind of looked at each other and nodded along and just said, 'Oh, some schools have earthquake drills.' And in that moment, his pure innocence of saying 'What other drills would there be?' — I just thought, let's keep that. Let's hold onto that. We may have one more year or maybe two more years where there's not a massive, earth-shattering school shooting that we don't have to sit down and explain to our child... but in that moment, it was okay to let him not know.
"I think it would be incredibly narcissistic to think that this couldn't happen in any school, in any city, in any state in this country. It's happened in red states and blue states and purple states, in elementary schools and high schools with all levels of law enforcement involvement. The idea that someone would think it couldn't happen at their school, that they're somehow different, is absurd. So, [I'm] very much scared."
"There's pretty good consensus here that this isn't a matter of repealing the Second Amendment, or Joe Biden or the ghost of Barack Obama stealing your guns. This is a very basic, commonsense policy proposal around things like background checks and red flag laws and cooling-off periods that we apply to health care and other things in this country. And the idea that that would somehow encroach on liberty, while not believing that this does, that being murdered in your school or your grocery store does not — I think, gosh, if we could just acknowledge that it is not Second Amendment repeal and burn all the guns or nothing. Maybe rather than saying 'It'll never work,' let's try something. Because maybe it will."
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MATT BALLEW, 42, stay-at-home dad, Tulsa.
Three children — 5, 7 and 9 — attend Jenks Public Schools.
"My wife and I were out running errands and I see all the news stuff start popping up on my phone and I was like, 'Oh man, not again.'
"So we sit there for a few hours and pick the kids up in that meantime, and we were debating on whether or not to send the kids to school for the next two days, because it always seems there's always somebody the next day or two doing a copycat of it. But, you know, these next two days there's so much going on to them. I mean, in the grand scheme of things it's not that big, but they're doing their awards and signing yearbooks and you don't want your kids to miss out on that kind of stuff because that's the stuff that they remember.
"So after baths last night, we kind of sat the kids down after we got done reading and we told them that there was a really bad thing that happened yesterday and we needed to talk to them about it. We said there was a gunman that went into a school and hurt a bunch of kids and a teacher. Our 9-year-old just sort of had a blank face the entire time. Our middle child got real upset. He was sad. He felt bad for the kids. Our youngest didn't quite understand, but understood something terrible had happened. We talked to the kids about how, you know, you do drills in school, school is prepared for this kind of thing, and, you know, the best thing for them to do if that were to ever happen is hide, don't make any noise. And our son went to bed crying last night. We laid with him for a little bit until he went to bed.
"This morning I was watching the news and they came in and I just decided to let them watch the news, and they all sat down and were just glued to it like they were watching Bluey. Before we walked out of the door [for school], we were like, 'Is this the right thing to do?' You know the old saying, 'Don't let the terrorists win?' It's way different when you're talking about your kids and going to school. So it was a rough morning.
"One of my cousins was in New Mexico and he was in a classroom where there was a school shooting. He was in the closet and the kid was firing the gun into the closet and one of his friends died. So our family has dealt with this before. Obviously, my kids do not know that story. It'll be a while, probably, before we talk to them about it. It's just helplessness. It's a terrible way to have to live. It's always on the back of my mind. Every time I go to school it's something that I think about and I worry about, and we shouldn't have to do that.
"It's scary. You should worry about your children getting in trouble at school, not that someone's gonna break into school or come into school and do terrible things to innocent people. It's — It's — I don't know, it's just — The 'thoughts and prayers' and 'this isn't the time' is just a terrible way to go about doing something. There needs to be action. And this week in Texas I think on Friday there's going to be a big NRA thing, and it's time to stop all — I'm a gun owner. I have handguns and I have rifles, and it's just, I would give them up in a second if it meant that it would slow this down to a point where you don't have to worry about it all of the time.
"They said that kid went out and bought two rifles on his 18th birthday. There's no reason for that, unless you're hunting — and you're not hunting with AR-15s. In Texas, they don't hunt hogs with AR-15s. There's lots of things that need to be tweaked, and anything to get the ball rolling is better than 'thoughts and prayers' at this point."
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MARCIA BRUNO-TODD, 34, nonprofit executive, Tulsa.
Three children — 13, 12 and 8. Two attend Tulsa Public Schools.
"I found out from, there's a Latina mom text group that I'm a part of, and we try to share resources and support for each other. I received a text there about the concern that happened in Texas and honest fears of what this could mean for our children. This is a lot. I come from — As a Latina woman myself, knowing that this was in a predominantly Latino community, this is hard. But also knowing that there are different identities, cultural identities, in my family. We are a blended family, so we have Black identities, multiracial identities, Latinx identities in our home. I had to think about how this looks like through the eyes of my children as Black and brown going through school. What does this mean? And then the fear of access to protection or support, if school's a safe place anymore.
"So, how I talked about it with them, based on their age range, is a little different. For my older children, my 13- and 12-year old, we've already talked about some of the cultural debates in our community regarding gun control and gun violence, and we're encouraging them to be critical thinkers. They shared their concerns and fears because earlier this year they did receive — there was a threat of violence or a gun threat at the school, so there was a lockdown. So this is a continuation of that fear for them, you know? They're making connections.
"And we talked it out. What's within our locus of control and what's not? Who are the people within our support network that we can go to if we see something that's concerning? How do we share that with our trusted adults in our lives and the schools? But, really, it's still a very emotional moment. As a mother you want to do everything you can to protect your child, and then also know that the world — you can't protect them from the world, so you want them to be able to grow and learn and to be self-sufficient and protect themselves. But when something like this happens, there's no sense of, like, 'fair.' There's no sense of preparation. I can only imagine the violation of trust these parents feel.
"Identity's important just because this is yet another thing, right? I've got Black and brown children in my home, I'm Latinx myself. We're already trying to deal with the fear of, like, verbal and racial violence, and then on top of this — this [shooting] was not racially motivated, but it's like another level, like, not even other people, you know what I mean? So it's like another level of a wall, a barrier, and a fear that we have to navigate. It's just violence. There's not even a pattern to this, and that's what's scary.
"So that's what would go through my mind in a lot of these mom groups and parent groups that I'm a part of is: We can't even just — just recently on the heels of the shooting in the grocery store, which, you know, we fear going to our local grocery store, Oasis. That could happen any time, and then also it could happen to our kid's school any time. It's a lot. I don't want to conflate the two, but it just seems like there's not, there's a lot of levels of why our guard is up, and it's hard to live that way.
"I respect honoring the lives of the children and the adults lost, and also the previous ones, because this is not our first school shooting in our country. But I think the best way to honor these families and our children is to have more honest dialogue in policy development. Because at this point, we all are responsible that this keeps happening. At this point. Like, the first time is a surprise — the second, third, and now I've lost count? This is no longer a surprise. The system is doing exactly what it was designed to do."
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CANAAN RICE, 42 , events manager, Tulsa.
Two children, 10 and 12, attend Jenks Public Schools.
"I like to keep an iPad at my desk on mute with news going sometimes, and I just happened to see it on my iPad next to my desk. I think I gasped out loud. Immediately, my eyes filled with tears. I was listening on the way home when the death toll went up, and I was in the car by myself and I literally just said, 'Oh my God' just to myself and just started tearing up and crying. Just pure sadness mixed with pure anger. I just kept thinking in my head, 'Those sweet babies. Those innocent, sweet babies.'
"I approach it differently with each one of my children because they're very different types of kids. Really what I try to do with both of them is first try to find out what they know, kind of asking them probing questions to see what they might already know. With my fourth grader, she's younger, of course, and she's also a much different personality. She's a child that already deals with some fear and anxiety, so — I don't think there's a right or wrong, I think that parents just know their children. With my youngest one, I actually did not bring it up last night. I have talked to her in the past when I know they do the active-shooter drills, just trying to gauge what she thinks those are. Why do you think you guys practice those? She explains it to me as, 'You know, it's just in case a bad man comes in the building or if somebody that isn't supposed to be in the building comes in the building.' And with her, I don't feel like it would be beneficial for me to elaborate on what that could mean, as far as the danger that that could mean for her.
"There's a lot of talk about when kids should get cell phones and things like that. And when my child went from elementary to middle school, we chose to get her a cell phone for the lone reason that if something were to happen at school we want her to be able to contact us. And that was heartbreaking to me, that we as parents even had to think about that. And now we've done the same with our fourth grader this year, honestly. And that's the main reason that we chose to do that, which is sad.
"If this happened to someone's child, they would want action, and I just can't fathom being a parent and not wanting some type of change, and not empathizing enough to put yourself — This could be any of us. This could be me today. This could be any parent, any grandparent, and this is the time to talk about it. This is the time to be loud. This is the time to stand up for those poor, innocent children and those teachers that sacrificed their lives, most likely, trying to help those children. This is the time. If you keep saying it's not the time, when is the time? We're going to move on to another story and there's going to be another one. There's not a break from mass shootings. There's not a time to sit back and reflect. They happen frequently. This is the time to stand up and use your voice — and not make this political, this isn't political. This is about protecting our children."
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J.D., 34, graphic designer, Tulsa.
Two children, 3 and 5, attend or will attend Tulsa Public Schools.
"My wife and my kids got up and we were kind of having our morning coffee and talking, and I kind of just said to my wife, 'Did you hear what happened in Texas?' And she was like, 'No, what happened?' And I instantly became really aware of the two younger kids in the room and was just kind of thinking about what I should say or what I shouldn't say around them. And my 5-year-old was like, 'What happened? What happened?' and kind of, just, pressing me. I just didn't want to tell him. I don't know. I don't think that he really needs to carry that or know about that or think about that. He probably could, and maybe he should, but I just — In that moment I didn't really feel like doing that.
"So he kept asking, and finally he said, 'What happened, was it a bad storm?' And that just kind of gave me an out, because I was kind of thinking of a way to deflect from it or a different story to come up with. So I just went along with him and said, 'Yeah, there was a bad storm in Texas.' It was just kind of a weird and sad moment, you know? You can't even really feel like you can talk about it or process it, because I don't want my kid to live in any more fear than he has to.
"Being overseas at the moment, it's just, like, always trying to look at America from an outside perspective and have that perspective, you know? It's hard trying to be proud of where you're from and stand up for where you're from when you can so glaringly see flaws in it. I just wish we could figure out, because I love Tulsa and I love Oklahoma, and that's home for me. And I would like to stay there and enjoy that city and contribute to that city without feeling like I'm actively putting my family and my kids in harm's way every single day just by existing and sending them to school and going to the grocery store and doing all of the things that are normal and things that people have to do in this world to survive.
"It's like the Wild West, right? You know, I love America and I love freedoms and I've definitely met my share of responsible gun-owners and people that hypothetically would be the good guy with the gun, right? But at the same time I think we're sort of bound and, I don't know, made unsafe by a sentence that was written a couple hundred years ago by slave-owning colonizers, basically. So, like, I think you've got to think about things and you've got to have common sense and you've got to figure out how to adapt and how to protect and preserve life above everything else, you know?"
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Ali Cox, 51, small business owner, Tulsa.
Two children, 12 and 15, attend Jenks Public Schools. Two adult children in college.
"I saw that there had been a shooting which, you know, there's shootings so often that it kind of caught my eye, but not — wasn't anything that spectacular. And then I just slowly started to hear on TV that it was more like what had happened at Sandy Hook and I was just sad but also kind of numb, at this point, and started going through the logistics of my own kids, which I've done over the years at every building that they've been in, tried to figure out what it'd look like if something like that happened. But also just really sad for those parents.
"I have two sets of kids, so, you know, I went through my older kids, Sandy Hook happened, and I think I talked to them a little bit. My next set, my freshman and my 6th grader, we haven't had a lot of conversations. I am aware of the drills that they do at school and the changes they've made at Jenks. I did make sure that they knew about it, but this time I feel like I'm going to have to educate myself a little bit more because it's happening more often. It makes me angry. It makes me sad for our kids. And I want it to change.
"I do not think my kids are scared, only because I think they have grown up with this, which doesn't make me feel great. I think they are so used to things like this happening, gun violence happening, that they are just kind of numb to it. And I don't think they even know to be scared. I think they think this is how life is. I, yes, I get scared for my kids. I do not like to live in fear, but I absolutely worry about my kids going to school and getting shot. I do. I don't tell them that. I don't tell them that.
"It hasn't happened in Oklahoma yet, but with our gun laws, I mean, I'm afraid it's just a matter of time here. It scares me. The level of exhaustion in trying to manage and give your kid a decent life right now in Oklahoma, I feel like, is getting really heavy. Really heavy. And I am an older parent, so I feel sad for the parents that are young, raising their first kids. I want it to change. I want Oklahoma to change. I want our gun laws to change. I want us to do whatever we have to do to keep everybody safe, but for sure our children.
"Those people [in Uvalde] are going to grieve the rest of their lives. They're going to grieve today, and they're going to grieve until the day that they die. So grieving is going to happen. I think now is a perfect time to talk about it. I think you have to be careful, because these people deserve to have their family members seen and they do deserve to have the time that they need, but it is an okay time to talk about this never happening to anybody else. It's unfortunate that it had to happen to them, but that's because the same people said the same things 10 years ago and didn't do anything. So, I mean, that's my opinion, but, I mean, there's never a good time to talk about elementary-aged kids being gunned down in their own school."
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MIKE DAVIS, 35, nonprofit program manager + former school administrator, Tulsa.
Two children, 2 years old and 6 months old, will attend Tulsa Public Schools.
"The first thing was my heart broke, number one, right? Then that turned into anger, right? So now I have questions going through my head: How did this person get into the school? What happened? How could this happen to where he was able to get to these kids? My heart is still broken. My emotions are kind of all over the place right now.
"It's extremely hard right now to be a parent. I'm torn between, I want to be a protector of my child, and be a protector of the kids that I served as an administrator and even as a football coach, right, that I see on a daily basis. It's extremely hard because you want to be there and protect, but then you want to say, are the proper protocols in place to keep my children safe and to keep other peoples' children safe when they entrust them to come to us, whether it's at school, an after school activity, et cetera.
"It's extremely tough right now because you realize you really don't have the control, right? The only thing that you can do is be proactive and make sure to the best of your ability that you are secured, your school and your stuff is secured in a way if something were to happen, you would be able to decrease the amount of fatalities, if something like that unfortunately was to happen.
"No place is out of bounds or safe, right? No matter if you're in north Tulsa, south Tulsa, east or west or wherever, there's no place that's just 100% safe, right? Anything could happen at any time, so I am worried that something like this could happen in Tulsa.
"I think that all the politicians, regardless of whether you're a Republican, a Democrat, an independent or whatever, if you have kids or have kids in your family or even care about kids, put all your differences aside, come together, and decide what is for the better benefit of our students? Because it's about them. It's not just about a quality education and a robust curriculum. They need to come to a place where they're safe and not have to worry, 'If I come to school, an intruder can come in and I will get shot and killed or my teacher will get shot and killed.'
"You don't have to necessarily agree on everything, but on this particular issue they need to understand and agree that something needs to be done to help save our students. One is too many! And this happened yesterday, where a young man was able to come in and kill a classroom of kids and a teacher, and you're talking about — It's not the time to grieve, it's time to come together and figure out: what can we do to keep this from happening again? Put the other differences aside, come together, come up with a plan — what can you do to ensure that this does not happen again? What steps are you taking? What policies are we putting forward to show that you care about our freaking kids? Period."
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