BEN ABRAMS: Criminal justice reform has been a big topic across the country, including here in Oklahoma. An impending lawsuit in federal court is challenging Oklahoma's policies on parole for those who went into the criminal justice system as minors. The nonprofit newsroom Oklahoma Watch has reported on this story and reporter Keaton Ross joins me now. Keaton, hello.
KEATON ROSS: Hey, thanks for having me.
BA: So, talk a little bit about the lawsuit. What brought this forward in the first place?
KR: So, there's a state prisoner named Dwayne Thomas that was convicted of three counts of first-degree murder in the late 1990s. He's been incarcerated ever since then. He committed the crimes when he was 15 and he's been up for parole five times since 2010. Each time had a favorable recommendation from parole investigators, but [he] has never been approved for parole with his name sent to the governor. So, [he] filed this lawsuit in 2020. It was initially rejected in the Western District Court in Oklahoma City, but his attorneys challenged that ruling to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver and they sided with him—and that has been remanded back to the Western District and is getting ready to go to trial.
BA: And, addition to him—there are two central figures you talk about in your article, one of which was also convicted in the Tulsa area. Can you talk a little bit about him as well?
KR: Yes, that was Terry Hunt. He was convicted of murder when he was 16 years old and sentenced to life with the possibility of parole. His story really mirrors Dwayne Thomas in a lot of ways. They were convicted of this heinous crime when they were very young, argued that they've made steps for reform and have gone through programs and tried to better themselves, but have yet to get any progress, really, in the parole system.
BA: So, I mean, these men have gone through the system and tried to reform themselves, as is, conceptually, the argument for having somebody incarcerated and come out a citizen—productive citizen in society. What has really held up that process for them?
KR: Well, there are a few different factors, one—and we get into this in the article—is: parole is a risky… granting parole is risky if you’re on the board or you're the governor who has the final say with violent offenders, such as someone convicted of murder. If they're released and they go on to commit another crime or something bad happens, that's a very bad look and is risky politically. So, that's one end of it… and I think the other part of it, just in these cases, is that the science on juveniles in the criminal justice system and their capacity to reform versus someone who's, you know, 40 or 50 when they committed this crime—that's really evolved and is still catching up in a lot of places.
BA: It's interesting that politics takes a central role in that. I mean, criminal justice reform has been a big topic throughout the country. Can you talk about—a little bit about the criminal justice reform conversations here in Oklahoma maybe versus the rest of the country?
KR: Sure. So, there has been, over the past decade or so, really, a lot of progress in Oklahoma for people fighting for criminal justice reform. One of the main things was state question 780 and 781: reclassifying some drug and property offenses. But, in recent years, there was one high-profile case where someone, Lawrence Anderson, was released on parole when he shouldn't have been. [He] went on to commit a pretty violent murder. And so there have been some cases where there's been a little bit of backlash to the efforts to reduce the prison population and continue on with some of those criminal justice reform efforts. So, Oklahoma's prison population is down over the past five years. There has been some progress, but also some backlash and pushback to some of those efforts in recent years.
BA: Just, last question for you, and we'll leave it there: What is the state arguing in as it's involved in this lawsuit? And where do you see this going from here?
KR: So, the state is arguing that there is in fact an adequate process for juveniles to seek and obtain early release. They say that the process has worked before, that it's fine as is. And the counterargument to that is, sort of that: because there's not a special parole docket for juveniles, or more of a case to show the reform made, that that process should be changed. And, going forward, anticipate that the trial will commence sometime later this year or in early 2025. And we'll see how the judge rules in this case.
BA: That's Keaton Ross, reporter for the nonprofit newsroom Oklahoma Watch. His article is titled “Lawsuit Challenging Oklahoma's Teen Parole Policies Inches Closer to Trial.”
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Keaton Ross covers democracy and criminal justice for Oklahoma Watch. Contact him at (405) 831-9753 or Kross@Oklahomawatch.org. Follow him on Twitter at @_KeatonRoss.
