AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Before he entered politics, most Americans knew Donald Trump as an entertainer. As the host of the hit show "The Apprentice," he was catapulted to a new level of fame.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE APPRENTICE")
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I've mastered the art of the deal and have turned the name Trump into the highest-quality brand. And as the master, I want to pass along my knowledge to somebody else. I'm looking for the apprentice.
CHANG: That persona has carried over to Trump's political life as he embraces his role as entertainer-in-chief. In this term, unlike the first, Trump has taken aim at cultural institutions. He initiated a takeover of the Kennedy Center, has declared that Smithsonian exhibits must submit to White House scrutiny, and he has successfully sued and won settlements from multiple broadcasting giants.
For a look at how President Trump is reshaping culture, we're joined now by NPR senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro and NPR cultural critic and media analyst Eric Deggans. Hey to both of you.
DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Hey there.
ERIC DEGGANS, BYLINE: Hey.
CHANG: Hey. So let's start with you, Eric. And it's a big first question. What kind of direct impact do you think the president's interjection into culture has had on the arts? Like, what's most jumped out to you?
DEGGANS: So I think what we've seen happen here is a lot of chaos, and we've also seen a lot of uncertainty and a lot of fear. People are not sure what's expected of them, but what seems to be happening is that the expertise of people who've run these institutions is being subverted and overturned and replaced by fealty to Trump and his ideological agenda.
And on top of that, what's really interesting is that even though Trump has in many ways been somebody who's overturned institutions, he's also somebody who wants to be recognized by them. You know, he's somebody who has called the press fake news, but he also seems to want to be featured in, you know, The New York Times or featured favorably in CNN. He's someone who has criticized the Kennedy Center Honors, but he's also someone who seems to want to receive one (laughter). And in fact, we saw that when he was talking about the Kennedy Center Honors and picking who would get them as he began to assert more control over the organization. And we have a clip.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
TRUMP: Since 1978, the Kennedy Center Honors have been among the most prestigious awards in the performing arts. I wanted one. I was never able to get one. This year...
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: It's true, actually. I would have taken it if they would have called me. I waited and waited and waited. And I said, the hell with it. I'll become chairman.
DEGGANS: And so I think what, you know, really concerns people in the arts world is that all of a sudden, the rubric isn't whether you're a great artist or whether you've achieved something. It's, you know, how much have you paid fealty to Trump and how much do you align with his ideology?
CHANG: Well, Domenico, this assertion of authority we're seeing from President Trump this term, it's more than we saw in the first term, right? Like, how unusual is this level of involvement in the cultural space for a president?
MONTANARO: Well, we've always had presidents try to look to shape the narrative. You know, all the way back to Nixon, his vice president, Spiro Agnew, spoke out against the advent of television news, for example, which he saw as shallow and focused on the wrong things. But what Trump is doing here goes way beyond any traditional working of the refs. You know, he's trying to use the leverage of his office to operationalize control over the message. He's trying, for example, to force media outlets' hands - and more specifically their corporate owners - often with lawsuits, or in the case of public media, cutting funding. You know, Trump doesn't want criticism, he wants fealty. And he's willing to use whatever he can to get it.
CHANG: Fealty - OK. So if this is all about loyalty, something that we know he values, why take on an industry that often challenges authority? Just to show he can do it?
MONTANARO: That's exactly why. You know, to try and break it. To get that control over them. And, you know, to do this in some ways with outlets settling for millions of dollars for things that are routine journalistic practice, as CBS did as a result of "60 Minutes'" editing of an interview with Kamala Harris during the 2024 campaign. It was a real strong-arm tactic.
DEGGANS: And it's been interesting to see how the pushback has come in the same company that owns CBS and "60 Minutes" - Paramount. "South Park" seems to be...
CHANG: Oh, yeah.
DEGGANS: The animated show seems to be where there's a lot of criticism of the president. Even as there was a deal to - a deal between "South Park" and Paramount and a deal between Paramount and Skydance to merge, they have stepped forward. They've had new episodes that have criticized the president. And we've got a clip of them making fun of how the president tends to bring in world leaders or bring in local politicians and have them flatter him. Let's check it out.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "SOUTH PARK")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Mr. President, you have so many great ideas. Your leadership is truly beyond anything we have ever had in this country.
DEGGANS: And we have to stop there because the joke that unfolds is something we can't air on the radio (laughter). But it's worked for "South Park" because, you know, they're coming from a place where they haven't necessarily always been a consistent critic of the president. But they're stepping up now, and it's really making an impact.
MONTANARO: Yeah. And if you think that's outlandish, I mean, listen to just a little bit of Trump's recent 3 1/2-hour Cabinet meeting.
(SOUNDBITE OF MONTAGE)
SCOTT BESSENT: Under the last administration. And it's an honor the - to do this under your leadership.
RUSSELL VOUGHT: Have innovative jobs and get them back to work. So thank you for your leadership, Mr. President.
TRUMP: Thank you. Great job, Russ.
LORI CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Mr. President, I invite you to see your big, beautiful face on a banner in front of the Department of Labor because you are...
MONTANARO: So is that life imitating art or vice versa? Either way, this is what Trump wants. And certainly with an industry like comedy or the arts that are traditionally counterculture and counterpower.
CHANG: That is NPR's Domenico Montanaro and Eric Deggans. Thanks to both of you.
MONTANARO: You're welcome.
DEGGANS: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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