A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Let's bring in retired General Joseph Votel. He led U.S. Central Command between 2016 and 2019, overseeing counterterrorism operations in the Middle East. He's now a distinguished military fellow at the Middle East Institute.
General, we just heard our reporter talk about how Iranian officials are considering themselves a global superpower - that's what they're calling themselves, at least. What do you think that signifies over how Iran feels this has gone? Do you think they're feeling pretty good over how it's gone so far with the U.S.?
JOSEPH VOTEL: Yes, good morning. Well, I think it indicates that Iran thinks they have a lot of space here, and that they have some leverage over us. And so, as we've kind of seen in the response here from them, it's been more of a counterproposal, not an acceptance of U.S. demands.
MARTÍNEZ: Is it a certain kind of confidence that maybe people weren't expecting out of them?
VOTEL: I don't know that we should say that people weren't expecting them. I mean, they survived an eight-year war with Iraq amidst, you know, horrendous suffering of their people - and they are survivors. And so, yeah, I think there is a certain amount of wasta that is coming with this that they think they can wait us out.
MARTÍNEZ: What are troops in the region likely doing right now as these negotiations continue?
VOTEL: Well, they - our troops are continuing to do what we've asked them to do. They're continuing to enforce the blockade. I think that - I think we're up to nearly 70 ships that we've turned around in terms of that. We're also, you know, continuing to patrol the air. We're continuing to do surveillance and keep an eye on things. And we're also using this as an opportunity to replenish and resupply ourselves so that in the event that we do have to move back into a more robust military posture, that our forces are prepared.
MARTÍNEZ: When President Trump says things such as Iran is playing games, what's the effect on the military and its operation overseas?
VOTEL: Well, the military is going to pretty much focus on the military task...
MARTÍNEZ: Right.
VOTEL: ...That they have, and, you know, they're not going to get too involved in the political stuff. There is a level of leadership that interfaces with that, but for the most part, our forces are going to continue to do things that they are being directed to do by the chain of command.
MARTÍNEZ: So troops aren't getting antsy or anything like that?
VOTEL: Well, A, I'm not there, so I can't...
MARTÍNEZ: Right.
VOTEL: I can't speak specifically for what they're doing. I mean, obviously, this has been a deployment that's going on for a longer period of time than we may have anticipated, so there may be some challenges there. But for the most part, troops are used to that, and the leadership will be focused on making sure the troops know what their responsibilities and duties are right now and keeping them ready for whatever may come next.
MARTÍNEZ: What options, General, do you see - militarily or diplomatically - that the U.S. might be able to use to break Iran's control of the strait from Iran?
VOTEL: Well, the - I think the blockade, for the most part, is holding political - the ceasefire is holding politically, but as we've seen, it's degrading operationally. There have been strikes back and forth between, you know, both sides on this. So I think what we'll see with the military here, well, they will continue to maintain their capability to do this. But for the most part, what - the military is doing what it needs to do right now, and that is enforce the blockade and put more pressure - military and diplomatically - on the Iranians. The real effort now needs to be in the diplomatic side. So there's not much more we can do militarily, other than just respond to the situation that develops. It really - the onus really has to be on the diplomatic element of power at this point.
MARTÍNEZ: We just heard that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told "60 Minutes" that he didn't have perfect foresight about Iran taking over the strait. How foreseeable was what happened?
VOTEL: It was absolutely foreseeable. Every war game, every study we've ever had has suggested that Iran would use the Strait of Hormuz as a point of leverage. And so I'm surprised he would say that, but it's - we shouldn't be surprised that they have tried to take advantage of their geography to exert influence over the Strait of Hormuz - just as we always thought they would.
MARTÍNEZ: One more thing, just based on what you've seen so far. Are the U.S. and Iran closer or further away from a negotiated way to end this?
VOTEL: Well, we still seem to be at kind of extreme ends of our negotiating position, so there's certainly a lot that has to be done. And fundamentally, there's got to be trust built between two sides before they can begin to move towards the middle. So I suspect we've probably got a lot of negotiations left in front of us.
MARTÍNEZ: That's retired Four-Star General Joseph Votel, former CENTCOM commander, currently at the Middle East Institute. General. Thank you.
VOTEL: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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