STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We've been reaching out to members of both parties about what it will take to get a funding bill passed. And this morning, we speak with Senator Chris Coons, a Democrat who sits on the Senate Appropriations Committee. Senator, welcome back.
CHRIS COONS: Thanks, Steve. Great to be on with you.
INSKEEP: What are you hearing from federal workers in your state now that we're this far in?
COONS: I'm hearing alarm that they're not getting paid, and they don't know when or if they'll be laid off in a politically motivated reduction in force. As Andrea just reported, a federal judge in California has already ruled in a temporary injunction that these politically motivated layoffs led by President Trump and his OMB director should not go forward because they're illegal. You can't use politics to decide who ought to be fired from the federal workforce.
INSKEEP: Now, Senator, early in the shutdown, we got a sense that at least some, maybe many federal workers were fatalistic about this. They felt the government was being overrun anyway, that many of them were getting fired anyway, and so the shutdown might as well come. That was one of the opinions that we heard reflected. I'm sure there are many opinions among federal workers. But now that we're more than two weeks in and people are missing paychecks, do you think federal workers still feel that way?
COONS: Well, we're in Week 3 of this Republican shutdown because Trump and Thune and Johnson won't come to the table and stop health care costs from skyrocketing next month for millions of Americans. Most of the federal workers I've talked to have said, look, folks have been laid off, off and on this year, back to DOGE in the beginning of the year...
INSKEEP: Sure.
COONS: ...When Trump handed Elon Musk the keys to randomly lay off people and shut down sections of the government. They feel like we should make a stand and insist on a negotiation with Republicans to avoid...
INSKEEP: And you think they still think that...
COONS: ...Huge increases in health care costs.
INSKEEP: And you think they still feel that way now that they're missing paychecks?
COONS: Well, the other thing that's going on here is that President Trump is not following the law in terms of making it clear everyone will get paid when we reopen. That's according to a law that Trump himself signed in his first term. I'll remind you, the last shutdown was the last time Trump was president. There is a path forward here and it has to do with working together to get an extension to the Affordable Care Act that would allow it to keep being affordable for millions of Americans.
INSKEEP: Well, I'm glad you're talking about an extension because yesterday we had a Republican on the program, Mike Lawler of New York. And he said something about a one-year extension that he wishes more lawmakers would sign on to. Let's listen to some of that.
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MIKE LAWLER: If you want to solve an issue like the Obamacare subsidies that Democrats put in place for four years and were slated to expire at the end of this year - they knew that they were slated to expire. They passed the bill. And so I have already signed onto legislation to extend the subsidies by a year. And that was part of my point to Hakeem Jeffries. If you're serious about this, if this is the issue you claim it is, then why won't you sign onto this bill with me?
INSKEEP: OK, one-year extension. Is there room to make some progress there?
COONS: Yes, a one-year extension would avoid significant pain next month for millions of Americans, but it won't do that much. The best path forward would be to reform and extend these tax credits for multiple years because the insurance markets, Steve, don't just work on one year. If the insurance companies that provide Affordable Care Act support for millions of Americans only know they've got a temporary reprieve, they're still going to price in that uncertainty.
INSKEEP: Senator...
COONS: Here's the bigger point.
INSKEEP: Go on.
COONS: President Trump ran on lowering costs and making America healthy again. He's not engaging in this. And we need to work together to make Americans healthier and reduce their costs. Right now, Trump is spending more time trying to bail out Argentina than he is trying to reduce health care costs for Americans.
INSKEEP: He is talking of bailing out Argentina. I want to ask one follow-up, though, about these tax credits. Republicans have made an interesting point. They've said the tax credits are necessary for people to be able to afford health insurance because health insurance costs keep going up and up because, they say, Obamacare is a failure. It failed to hold down costs, which is one of the goals. In about 30 seconds, is that a failure?
COONS: I don't think it is a failure. I do think there's bipartisan things we could do to reduce health care costs, for example, PBR reform. But we need to work together, and we can't do that only after Democrats agree to keep moving forward. Republicans are raising health care costs, and we need them to come to the table with a concrete path forward for avoiding that.
INSKEEP: And just to be clear, as a yes or no answer, are there any negotiations going on right now that you know of?
COONS: There's conversations but not with the leadership, not with President Trump or Leader Thune or Speaker Johnson.
INSKEEP: Got it. Senator Chris Coons of Delaware, thanks very much, as always.
COONS: Thank you, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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