Angel Ford:
So today, we are pulling back the curtain on Public Radio Tulsa’s newsroom as we bid a bittersweet farewell to a local legend. For the past 7 or 8 years? How Long?
Elizabeth Caldwell:
It's actually about five. More in the area of five years.
AF:
About five years, our news director, Elizabeth Caldwell, has been the mastermind behind the headlines at KWGS.
Now she's trading her director chair for more high stakes kind of gig with investigative reporting in Jacksonville, Florida.
EC:
That's right.
AF:
Yeah. So, tell us about your new job.
EC:
So, I'm going to be the investigative reporter for Jacksonville Today, which is the online arm of WJCT which is the public radio station in Jacksonville. I think it's okay to say that because I accepted the job offer, and we've gone through all the steps. So, I get to use the skills that I built up here mainly through my second job or my freelancing at Oklahoma Watch. I get to use those skills full time.
AF:
Awesome. What is something that-the biggest lessons you learned while managing the newsroom that you hope to take and apply to your own reporting up there?
EC:
Man, I feel so much empathy for people who have been lifelong reporters who are facing a really tough landscape now, and there are so many challenges to being a journalist now. And one of them is, I think legacy media is kind of stuck in this old pattern that is hard to get out of while we see these nontraditional kind of journalists or people who call themselves journalists, in some cases actual journalists, in other cases, we could, you know, have a conversation about that term being applied to them. But while they are fully committed to the new kind of mediums, you know, the cutting edge now, like radio used to be cutting edge, right? Newspapers used to be the most important form of media. That's not the case anymore. But some people are stuck in this pattern where they still need to keep feeding those models, and they can't dedicate themselves in a way that independent journalists or, you know, people who want to be journalists can. So, I really feel for people who have really dedicated their lives to journalism to see these things change. And there's really not a whole lot that they can do. Do you know what I mean? We've talked about that.
AF:
Yeah. I mean, I'm one of those people, one of those few, I guess, that really love print media. I was in print media before this, and I bought a newspaper the other day, a Tulsa World, and someone asked if I meant to.
EC:
Are you serious?
AF:
Yeah, yeah. They're like, ‘are you in the paper? Are you in the paper? Why are you buying this?’ I'm like, no.
EC:
Wow.
AF:
I'm reading it. Yeah.
EC:
See?
AF:
Yeah.
AF:
See, that's, that’s just illustrates what I'm talking about, that you would have never gotten that question, you know?
AF;
Yeah.
EC:
A couple of decades ago.
AF:
No, and I feel like print journalism is so important. Something once it's printed, you can't change. Whereas digital media changes all the time.
EC:
That's right. You can change- you can alter your posts pretty easily. You can take things down. You can erase them. Although we could make an argument for-for once something's on the internet, it's there forever. But you know that it's there forever in print because you can hold it in your hands, right? So that's an irrefutable kind of record.
AF:
Yeah.
EC:
So. Yeah.
AF:
Okay, now next question, and this one was my favorite because Florida has-is one of those unique kinds of areas where you get kind of the reputation they have, where both bizarre local news and then some really complex political stories.
EC:
Oh, Florida man.
AF:
Uh-uh. That's right.
EC:
Yeah.
AF:
That's one of my favorite stories.
EC:
I wanted to do a podcast. Can I just tell you, I once had this idea for a podcast about because I'm from Florida, I'm from southern Florida. I had this idea for a podcast once called Florida man, where I would go around and do stories about the different, you know, sort of Florida man stories, but it didn't really go anywhere.
AF:
Yeah, that would have been so cool, though. I would have-we would have listened to that, me and my best friend would have listened to that, because Florida man is like almost kind of a cryptid to us because it's so bizarre. And there's always something coming out of Florida about a Florida man.
EC:
Well, can I defend it just for a second? Before you get to your question. Florida is a really beautiful state, and it's a state where most people who live there, I think this is true, are not from there. So, you do have an eclectic melting pot, but the reason that people want to go to Florida is because it's so beautiful. I mean, it's really diverse in terms of its biology. You've got the Everglades and then you've got northern Florida, which is basically like Georgia. It takes 7 or 8 hours just to traverse the whole of Florida. So, I think that any place where you have something like that, where you have this melting pot of people and this really interesting terrain, it's going to result in some bizarre stories. But I do kind of resent the idea that Florida is just inherently, you know, like the Florida ma- if you're from there, it's you're kind of Florida man.
AF:
And it's like, no, I don't agree. I understand completely, and I agree, I think that people have that kind of idea with any state really. So, like if you're from California, you’re a valley girl, you know? If you're from Oklahoma, you're a farmer.
EC:
Oh, right.
AF:
So, like, I feel like Florida man is probably up there in things that would be kind of cool to be named, you know.
EC:
Well, yeah, as long as, like, you didn't steal an ATM with a tractor or something, like, you know, there's some pretty crazy stories out of there.
AF:
Yeah, those are my favorite to read, though, and I feel like everyone knows a Florida man at this point. I mean, that's the kind of story that will never die, you know.
EC:
For sure.
AF:
But to get back onto that, the diversity and in news kind of gathering, what kind of specific Florida issues are you most eager to dig into?
EC:
Oh, that's great. So, I'm glad I did a little research about stories before I went. So, I'm moving to Jacksonville, and I hope it's O.K. to say that as I and I'm a Florida native, O.K. I was born and raised in Florida, so I feel like this opinion is earned. You know, there is kind of some questions about what goes on in in certain parts of Florida. I think Jacksonville is one of them. And well, I don't want to say too much because I haven't really looked into it. But, you know, there are, large populations of people who feel that they are not represented, that they feel they have not been treated well. It's just the kind of same thing that I enjoyed doing. And, you know, in Oklahoma, and now I'm just going to be doing it in Jacksonville. So those are the- yeah, helping out, you know, helping out people who feel unrepresented. You can find that in any state. Let's be honest.
AF:
That's true.
EC:
Yeah.
AF:
Where there's big people there's always little people.
EC:
That's true.
AF:
Getting stepped on. So yeah. Right.
EC:
Right-I it's almost a necessity. Right. Because well, let's not get you into that.
AF:
Well, that's why we are in journalism. We feel it in a sense.
EC:
Yes. Right. Yeah.
AF:
We're the watchdogs.
EC:
Mmmhmm
AF:
So, looking back in your time as a news director, is there something that you're most proud of doing well as a news director?
EC:
I mean you know working with people like you, right? And getting you in here from Muskogee and nurturing people who want to still want to do it amazingly right and trying to encourage them, that has been really rewarding. You know, when it was successful. As a reporter because, you know, I still did a fair amount of reporting when I was a news director. I of course, I'm really proud of my work that I did with Cathy Lamb. Getting her- You know, I watched her leave prison because of a story I wrote. And how do you really describe a feeling of seeing a woman who was sentenced to life without parole for what a prosecutor defined as self-defense? You know, basically a self-defense killing because she was so much smaller than him and he was provoked, or there was an argument that she wasn't even involved in that she got in the middle of and, you know, felt she had to defend herself. So, she was in prison for three more than three decades for that. And it was it's really difficult to get someone out of prison who's been sentenced to life without parole. So, and when I was sitting in her parole hearing, the work that I did was, you know, cited again and again. So, I had a teacher that say, I can die happy now. But, you know, I never really thought, well, I probably won't die happy, right? Because I'm one of those people that always wants to do more. But that was certainly a huge accomplishment.
AF:
And it's something I greatly admire you about. And whenever I got the message that you'd wanted to interview me, I was like, well, I can't say it on the air, but I completely freaked out. So, the fact that you were able to do something like that is something I will always admire and some-and I’m just glad to have been in your orbit for as little time as it has been.
EC:
Well, I hope I didn't disappoint you, because let's-let's be honest about being in journalism for a while. You do get burnt out, right? So, I think when you came on, I was, you know, nearing that that end date.
AF:
But it’s been fun. Yeah, I've enjoyed it. And you, whatever the end has been, it's been enjoyable and I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed. I say enjoy a lot, but I really enjoyed having you and just being able to pick your brain for as little time as I've had. It's been awesome. So last question.
EC:
Okay.
AF:
...before the tears come. Is there something about Tulsa that you feel you will miss the most on the way out?
EC:
Tulsa is really interesting, and I think it's a beacon for people around the state who are looking, you know, for a little bit of culture, right? There's an amazing art scene here. Not that I went out much. Let's be honest.
AF:
If you’ve met any journalist, you'll know they're mostly homebodies if they're not out covering stories.
EC:
Yeah! But I heard there was an amazing art scene. And I think that people do come from around the region and kind of see it, and it certainly took me in, let's be honest, because I came to back to journalism sort of late, right? And Tulsa took me in, right? And look, I think I paid Tulsa back. I think I did. So, I'll miss that. I'll miss like the frontier kind of quality of Tulsa that's still here. The creativity. The undeniable creativity, you know. There's something kind of magic about it, right? There's something kind of magic about the creativity of Tulsa, how much people care about Tulsa. You don't really find that a ton in other places. And I'm-I think it's really cool that I was here to experience that, you know, for these past-about five years. And I'll miss, the kind of places that I really started to enjoy. I mean, there's restaurants, right, that I could mention. I love Kilkenny's the-there's some really good restaurants here. And I, yeah, I guess I'll miss that kind of vibe, that Tulsa vibe and how much people care about Tulsa.
AF:
All right. Well, thank you so much for sitting down with me for the final time.
EC:
Yeah. Thank you. Angel.
AF:
Stay in touch,
EC:
I will.
